Switzerland just won a case against the European Court of Human Rights, forcing Muslim girls to attend co-ed swimming lessons. The ECHR recognized that this was interfering with religious freedom but didn't think it amounted to a "violation."
Girls who have reached puberty may get an exemption, but younger girls cannot be exempted from taking swimming lessons with boys on account of religion.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38569428
I'm not even going to try and sugar coat this. This ruling is one of the DUMBEST and obviously illegal things I have ever heard of!
ReplyDeleteIt is actually very smart for the Swiss to draw the line right here so that they wont be pressured in the future to change laws for Muslim, and as far as being illegal an international court doesn't think so.
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DeleteIt could lead to Muslims wanting other things. For example, when muslims cover everything, but their eyes it presents security issues
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DeleteYeah, I'm not a fan of this one. It's so easy to see how this can lead to more laws that push parents to allow things that violate their religious beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIf the kids have another education option then I would say there is nothing illegal here. No rights are being violated. They still can practice their religion, as long as they have another education option, like home school.
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DeleteWhile home school may not be available for everyone, because of the laws, there is still the option of international schools in Switzerland, and there are also private schools. The government is only responsible for allowing/giving other options it is not their responsibility to change the schooling they provide, and even if others are unable to take advantage of the other options, as long as they allow them they are doing their job. Government allows freedom of religion they don't need to help others practice their own. In response to your comparison of the US giving immodest dress codes, this issue is based on taking a mandatory class not dress codes.
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DeleteThe government has done their job they have provided a free education. It is up to the people to find an education that is good for them. Whether or not something is scary doesn't matter.
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DeleteI assume you are talking abt illegally having a gun in a school, so the problem with that situation is that it causes harm. Not that it is scary. The fact that something is scary doesn't make it wrong. If you are going to argue that things that are scary are wrong, than I could say that I am scared of LDS people, so they need to be deported.
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DeleteIf not all scary things are bad, then I see no reason to point out that the situation is scary. The government isn't attacking the minorities. The rules are there in the public school not everywhere, the other options are still there.
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DeleteThe government isn't infringing on their rights, and they are not doing anything that isn't protecting them.
ReplyDeleteI'm just going to have the last word here. We've discussed before the question of compulsory education, and in some ways this is an extension of that discussion. The government is, in essence, requiring these girls to do something that violates their religious beliefs. Now, there are some valid reasons for doing that, such as requiring the face to be uncovered in certain security situations. However, I see no compelling reason for requiring these girls to violate their religious beliefs. There is no benefit to society at large. No one is protected. The school could easily accommodate this situation if they chose to. The simplest way would be to make swimming an elective with other courses that can fill the PE requirements available as alternatives. I would also suggest that a law like this would absolutely not hold up in court here in the US.
ReplyDeleteAs always, I appreciate the thought you've both put into this debate and the courtesy you've shown each other. The world need more people like you two. We will discuss this issue for a few minutes in class on Wednesday, so save your fire for then. :)
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ReplyDeleteOkay, I am so pumped up for this debate on Wednesday, but I will save my ammo for the battle. Just a quick thought, I was reading through this wonderful debate and hit by a sudden desire to see the church's stand on this.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostles/unto-all-the-world/people-of-faith-should-defend-freedom-of-religion-elder-oaks-says?lang=eng
Also these two paragraphs of another talk by elder oaks is interesting.
Many of these principles are embodied in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” International human rights documents likewise recognize the universality of freedom of religion and belief. Article 18 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights states, “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”
Religious freedom is not absolute. Limits on religious activities are appropriate where necessary to protect compelling interests, such as the life, property, health, or safety of others. But such limitations should be truly necessary, rather than an excuse for abridging religious freedom. Where the law constrains religious freedom, Latter-day Saints believe in obeying the law while seeking protection for their fundamental rights through such lawful means as may be available in each jurisdiction or country.
You can translate as you like, but just so you know, I like me a good ol' fashion debate! So if you study this stuff, you better study hard!
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